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BOTH!

Sam got Sue'd when they made her the every-scientist... she's an astrophysicist, fer cryin' out loud, not a molecular biologist!

However, Sam's also an excellent role model (when not making the Doe-Eyes-of-Death at her commanding officer).

1. She's a nerd. Sure, she wraps it up inside that suave military exterior, but Sam's SUCH a nerd.
2. Competent!Sam... Sam who is totally badass in ways that only Sam can be... punching Ba'al, blowing up suns... that sort of thing.
3. See #1 and #2. Sam being a competent badass while getting to flex her nerdy side? AWESOME.
4. See #1, #2, and #3. Sam shining as only Sam can, and making all the nerd boys drool because she's SOOOOO out of their league.
5. See #1, #2, #3, and #4. Really, now! Babbling to her alternate universe counterparts is Sam GOLD.
6. Punching Ba'al ranks up there. Not only did she lay him out flat for being a condescending jerk, but then she got back to work.
7. Super!Sam... She crunches complex calculations in her head! She has exactly the right answer for every scientific inquiry AND every emotional boo-boo! She can fix a broken piece of alien tech in three minutes using only a twist-tie and the foil from a stick of gum! She leaps tall buildings in a single bound, and NOT A HAIR FALLS OUT OF PLACE!
8. Super!Sam, Wibbly!Sam (all the emotions! she has them EVERYWHERE), Wooden!Sam (she's not the best at expressing herself, but she's not an android, either), and Girly!Sam (acceptable on the occasion, but only as far as shopping sprees with a fellow gal pal and the like... screaming for Jack to come kill a spider? SO NOT SAM...)
9. See #7 and #8. Especially the bit about the spider, WHICH ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN ONE FIC.
10. I confess to struggling with Sam in the past, but a few years ago, I came to the realization that most of my problem with her was her canonical wibbly-wobblyness... nerdy enthusiast one episode, competent warrior the next, ferocious sex-kitten the next... and handing the enemy the keys to the city without much fight in another?! I found that if I threw all that out and built up a "core" Sam (who was, to my surprise, a lot like me) that I could get a better handle on her.

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I confess to feeling like I'm missing backstory when Sam demonstrates expertise in medicine or biochemistry in canon, but then I chalk it up to her spending a LOT of time at Janet's place, reading Dr. Fraiser's medical journals after they've had sexyteimz. ;)

Sam Carter, afraid of a spider? Maybe a HUGE HONKING SHELOB LotR CROSSOVER MONSTER, but an itsy bitsy spider?????

(I cracked up when I first heard about Virgin!Sam fic. LOLWUT.)

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About as ridiculous as Virgin!Daniel fic... I can SORT OF understand Daniel never having gotten it on with a guy, but there's no way Sarah didn't drag him off to bed to pry him away from his work, and then there's Sha're and Hathor and maybe Shyla and/or Kera and possibly Sam and/or Janet (friends with benefits, ya know) and then Vala and who knows who all else.

But really?! Even if not the fact that Jonas Hansen was probably into some kinky games, and she and Daniel and/or Janet likely got together for some stress relief, and she and Teal'c banged while Jack was missing in "Paradise Lost" (if not sooner), and...

ANYONE with half a brain could see the way Sam was with Pete in "Chimera" and INSTANTLY know this is a woman who is sexually confident.

ETA: Also, while it's possible Daniel was generally clueless enough to have not been sleeping around with other guys before the SGC, CAM is far too gregarious to have not been adventurous in his youth XD

Edited Date: 2012-06-24 03:57 am (UTC)

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I can totally picture Jonas Hanson getting progressively kinkier & creepier, to the point where Sam wasn't comfortable with being the sub to his Dom, and breaking their engagement as his sexual douchery overlapped into other areas of their relationship.

In my fanon, Sam lost her V-card as a teenager during a rebellious phase. Because by the time she was "touched" in Broca Divide, the sex-tigress who attacked Jack in the locker room KNEW HER MOVES. And Jack was sorely tempted. Hell, if I were in Jack's place, I'd've done her & claimed later that I was "touched" too.

PS: Daniel totally did threesomes with Stephen & Sarah in grad school.

PPS: Sam's Doe Eyes never fail to make me melt. DOE EYES 4EVA

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Oh, yes, Touched!Sam definitely knew what she wanted AND how (and Jack was closer or she'd probably have had her wicked way with Daniel or had a grand ol' time with Teal'c.)

Stephen was a bit of schmuck... Sarah might've been two-timing Daniel with him, but otherwise...

Doe Eyes have their place... aimed at Jack when his countering expression is that of a man having recently eaten a pint of prunes? *sigh* Can't say Amanda didn't make the best of a crummy hand...

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OMG, Touched!Sam/Teal'c or Daniel. Or Gen. Hammond. >_<

As for Prune-faced Jack/Doe-eyed Sam... I've seen Jack give Daniel that same "pruney" look, and Sam turn the Doe Eyes on Teal'c, too. IT'S TRUE ~~orgy~~ LOVE.

College is usually a time when you do things you regret later... including Stephen the schmuck. GradSchool!Daniel would've done him after toking pot.

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Daniel might've Topped Stephen and Stephen forever resented it was never the other way around.

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Also can't remember pruney!face Jack toward Daniel... a dorky "what? no, I wasn't trying to sneak into the cookie jar" sort of face, but not the outright discomfort he sometimes--but not always--got in the face of the DEOD.

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magnavox-23.livejournal.com

Promise I will fill this in when I am more awake, just wanted to mention Sam's line to Merrin in Learning Curve about the fun/cool stuff she did in her life not happening until she was 15, and then Merrin asks what stuff and Sam's all "Just... stuff", which I took to mean Sam was at least experimenting sexually quite young perhaps in rebellion to her military father yadda yadda *yawn* totes not a virgin. :P

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OH YEAH. "Half the interesting things in my life didn't happen until I turned 15." Such as smoking her first cigarette, drinking her first beer, making out with another girl, and having sex with a high school senior (or college boy)... Which explains why she's almost "squeaky clean" as an adult.

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madders-ahatter.livejournal.com

My thoughts exactly! That convo with Merrin was a dead giveaway!

Edited Date: 2012-06-24 11:45 am (UTC)

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madders-ahatter.livejournal.com

My head-canon for Sam's medical expertise is that following early episode - erm mission - whumpage, and Daniel having to play midwife, Jack ordered Sam to take some training courses so that they'd have a 'mini-medic' on team. Being the super-bright scholar that she is, Sam wouldn't be content with superficial knowledge. She'd bone up on each topic until she felt confident she had it sewn up [puns fully intended]

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Samantha Carter: Mary Sue or Role Model?

lololol YOU ARE JUST INVITING TROUBLE.

1. Everything...? The thing I like the absolute most, maybe, is that she's really quite introverted - a clear step up from the Strong Female Character who Talks Tough and Hits Hard. That's nice, but not when it's all the time, so Sam is refreshing in that she's a pretty private person and still gets to do heroic things and be a hero without it being a silly stereotype.

2. The outwardly badass moments. Sun detonation and Ba'al punching. Sam being in command of things.

3. I don't know how to answer this question with anything other than "cuddle with Teal'c". I like to see indulgence in her relationship dynamics with the whole team? Being competitive with Cam, sharing in The Joys of Science with Daniel, getting flustered the first time Vala tells her she's hot hohohoho.

4. Anything that just... gets her right. Anything where she takes a deep breath and puts her fear aside to get the job done, that's my favorite. That's so Sam. MY DARLING BRAVE GIRL, as I believe you have heard me refer to her on multiple occasions. The fact that she is not without fear and yet still moves forward is THE BEST and there's nothing better than seeing it in fic. I suppose saying competent!Sam wouldn't be a stretch in terms of others' writing; some people have some, uh, creative ideas about Sam's character.

5. Cuddle with Teal'c!

6. I like in Road Not Taken when she's done being jerked around and signals this by ramming a guy's head into a car door.

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lololol YOU ARE JUST INVITING TROUBLE.
I collect trolls. Because I am one. ;D

she's really quite introverted
That's true; Sam's more than happy to let Daniel step forward & greet newcomers & aliens, to not speak until spoken to (military culture), and to party down with a side science project (or vintage motorcycle) during her downtime.

Strong Female Character who Talks Tough and Hits Hard....silly stereotype
I have serious issues when people say "strong female character", because it presupposes that females are not, by default, "strong". SEE: The Betty White quote http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lslx524zXM1qaqni4o1_500.jpg

One of my favorite "Sam in command" moments is in "Spirits" when she's leading SG-1 in Jack's absence, and makes sarcastic quips such as "My, what big eyes you have". Just as Jack would. asdfghjkl;

getting flustered the first time Vala tells her she's hot hohohoho
HAAA! Or her reaction when Janet says "libidinous" in Hathor. uuuhhhhhhhnnngg

puts her fear aside to get the job done
Aw man, that penultimate scene in "2001" where she's all "if I cut this rope, I might survive, but with a broken spine, so here it goes anyway". *glomps her with snuggles when she rolls down the ramp*

competent!Sam wouldn't be a stretch in terms of others' writing; some people have some, uh, creative ideas about Sam's character
Yeah, because all the times in canon when she's NOT competent... um. Er. When she's unconscious? There's that fanon trope that she can't cook for shit. (But she CAN bake Cam his macaroons!)

Cuddle with Teal'c
Because I kinda started watching SG-1 backwards (Unending got me hooked, so I viewed S9&10 before going back to S1 to watch in order) Sam/Teal'c is my 1st het ship for her. <3

she's done being jerked around and signals this by ramming a guy's head into a car door
Or in Foothold: "Maybourne, you are an idiot every day of the week, why couldn't you have just taken one day off?!" *swoon*

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franthewndrhrse.livejournal.com

The Betty White quote was super fantabulous.

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7. Poor dumb Sam and her poor dumb crush on her big gay CO. At best, it's a conspicuously misogynistic fanon fabrication. I have seen this handled well all of one time - in Paian's Appearance of Objects in Depth - and that was because it wasn't about Poor Dumb Sam finding out Jack and Daniel were boning. It was about Sam being angry and hurt that they would hide it from her, because she would have wanted to protect them. Everything else I've ever read has been Sam having to have a Come to Jesus moment with herself and having to ~accept~, through her Lifetime movie of the week tears, that Jack is gaaaayyy and he will never love her like he loves Daniellll!! Boohoohoo! That's... mildly insulting, on about ten different levels, and Paian's complete avoidance of this is what made that story feel real to me. Above all else, they're her team and they are important to her. And besides, I don't think Sam would be that oblivious about it. She'd pick up on something between them, even if she didn't know what it was, even if the pieces didn't fall into place and make sense until after her discovery.

Plus, if Sam is hung up on anything about Jack, it's that she's hung up on not being hung up on him. She's the one who wanted to leave it in the room, which many people seem to forget. As the woman, she's automatically under enormous pressure to do so, since society at large views so much of relationships as the male's pursuit of the woman until she relents. If they do anything, Sam's going to see it as her weakness and her fault. Sam is already hard on herself about most everything else, so I think it's not unreasonable to think she sees it as her responsibility to keep things under control and not be "the idiot who fell in love with her boss". I think she probably thought there was no way she would ever be that person to begin with, and so most of her energy would go toward putting it aside and not thinking about it. And nowhere in the show (I'm looking at you, oft-referenced and incorrectly applied Scorched Earth example) do her feelings for Jack compromise her work. Nowhere. I'm going to go the distance and say anyone who says otherwise is deliberately looking for evidence of something that isn't actually there.

8. The above. Sam just being there to provide exposition, or worse, Sam not being funny (she's very funny! but her sense of humor tends to be so understated and I think people miss that. how could she exist for eight years on a team with JACK if she couldn't keep up with his dumb jokes?) Sam crying too much. Sam not crying enough, aka being the team's emotionless robot (hello, what? if there's anything Sam Carter has a lot of, it's feelings about stuff.) An over-emphasis on excited technobabble. Anything involving the word "naive".

9. Being an asshole about her and her magnificent breasts butting into your precious sausage-fest team?

10. I think her being The Genius is more the reputation given to her by other characters than what is actually true. There's no doubt she's extremely smart, with an analytical mind that lends itself to being good at what she does, but come on. She's not Einstein.

I don't think canon is as unstable with her as legends say. Everyone on the show got some fun inconsistencies and I don't think Sam's were any worse than anyone else's. It is my belief that she just gets automatic bias, because hey! She's The Woman so she can't be good at too much or else she's TOO PERFECT, right guys?

I can count three separate instances off the top of my head where AU Sams died to save other people, not to mention all the times "our" Sam was ready for that. Is she more self-sacrificing than Daniel?! I don't know, but she's gotta hold some kind of record.

AND IN CLOSING: GIF.

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Poor dumb Sam and her poor dumb crush on her big gay CO
This cliche is so fucked up I don't even know where to begin. My biggest issue with it is IF JACK IS BONING DANIEL, THAT MAKES HIM BISEXUAL, NOT GAY. Because he never stops liking ~the ladies. In my fanons, (SG-1, SGA, XF, LotR, Farscape, Firefly...) I usually 'ship the main M/M pairings, based on the premise that the guys are BISEXUAL. Plus, I've never seen any indication in canon that Sam's a homophobe.

Paian's Appearance of Objects in Depth... Sam being angry and hurt that they would hide it from her, because she would have wanted to protect them.
Oh I need to read this. After I finish S8. So much of the best SG-1 fanfic is post-S6.

I don't think Sam would be that oblivious about it.
There's so much Jack/Daniel HoYay in canon, Sam can't help but notice.

she's hung up on not being hung up on him. She's the one who wanted to leave it in the room
Such a painful path she chose in that ep. A TOWER OF ANGST.

society at large views so much of relationships as the male's pursuit of the woman until she relents
UGGGHh the whole "women are responsible for men's morality because men are morally weak" concept really gets my goat. In the ass. With a fake penis.

oft-referenced and incorrectly applied Scorched Earth example
Sam obeys Jack's LET'S BLOW IT ALL UP Plan because he GAVE HER A DIRECT ORDER. You can see her chafing as she does it. (You can also see RDA wanting to wring Mallozzi & Mullie's necks for writing S1 Jack in S4.)

her sense of humor tends to be so understated and I think people miss that
Sam's humor is largely due to taking most of life *in* good humor. She just doesn't have the time or energy to waste on holding a grudge or being wanky about a pet peeve.

if there's anything Sam Carter has a lot of, it's feelings about stuff
That elevator scene in "Singularity" where Sam breaks down after leaving Cassandra? INSTANT CREYS ALL OVER MAI FACE

"naive"
More applicable to early S1 Daniel than to Sam, ever.

TBC

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anna-sg1.livejournal.com

(You can also see RDA wanting to wring Mallozzi & Mullie's necks for writing S1 Jack in S4.)

YES YES OMG SO MUCH YES! That whole episode, or the other half of it feels like they all regressed as characters that it's painful to watch.

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You wouldn't believe how many "Why I don't get S/J" posts I've read where people talk about Scorched Earth as some bastion of Sam's clouded judgment. It's not even close to being a fair example because of exactly what you said: Jack gave her a direct order. If she disobeys, then she's an incompetent officer. If she obeys, then apparently she's still an incompetent officer. You can't just wave around a lose/lose situation and call it irrefutable. Plus, yes, it's pretty evident how vehemently she disagrees.

You have to wonder why no blame gets placed with Jack for ordering to kill Daniel, but wait, no you don't. It all comes down to people looking for reasons to hate Sam. So it's like, let me see if I've got this right: she's too perfect, and therefore needs to make more mistakes. But hang on, she's also "pining" and therefore needs to never make any mistakes that could translate as her intense want of Jack's cock. ???

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thothmes.livejournal.com

My biggest issue with it is IF JACK IS BONING DANIEL, THAT MAKES HIM BISEXUAL, NOT GAY. Because he never stops liking ~the ladies.

Oh, yes THIS!

As you know, I'm a Sam/Jack shipper, and there is plenty of canon support for those two flirting, straight through to plans for the third movie, and based on what AT and RDA have to say about how they played it. If you don't like the pairing, and think they have all the chemistry together of anemic half-dried slugs, it is still canon. So unless you go AU, it's there.

I've heard in more than one interview that both MS, and to a greater degree RDA were initially upset that people were shipping their characters. I don't think it was because they had not "evolved", indeed there are interviews out there that make it pretty clear that this was not the case. I'm betting that it was simply a case of "We weren't playing it that way. WTF! Where are they getting that?" The same interviews that say they were initially upset, say that they began to play up those moments, in part because it amused them, and in part as a gift to those fans. So if people want to see that, it's there. Deliberately. I'm a Sam/Jack shipper, but I admit it's there. People who are Jack/Daniel shippers have actual deliberately placed screen moments to squee over.

In one of the commentaries one of the directors (I think it was Peter DeLouise) points out in an infirmary scene, how RDA is reflexively checking out the female extra playing a nurse in an infirmary scene. There's another scene (when General Bauer is being introduced to the SGC) where apparently the female extra parading by the ranks of SGC personnel winks at RDA as she passes, on the side that cannot be seen on camera. He looks startled, and checks her out as she passes him. As you look for it, these moments are caught on film often.

So even if one wants a personal fanon where since DADT was removed, Daniel and Jack have wed, and are now using info from the Asgard core to experience mpreg and bear and raise a baker's dozen of assbabies, it would be hard to argue that they weren't two happily married bi-guys.

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her magnificent breasts butting into your precious sausage-fest team
[MY REDACTED ANTI-MISOGYNIST RANT WENT HERE.] THIS. Loving cock doesn't mean you have to hate vaginas.

She's not Einstein
She's damned close. SHE CAN BLOW UP A SUN. Although Rodney's closer. (He blew up most of a solar system. By accident.)

she can't be good at too much or else she's TOO PERFECT, right guys?
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha! Sam has flaws; they're just the kind of flaws that are easy to miss if you're only focused on Jack & Daniel's penises.

Is she more self-sacrificing than Daniel?! I don't know, but she's gotta hold some kind of record.
Sam hasn't died as often as Daniel. *sporfle*

AND IN CLOSING: GIF.
LOL AWKWARD ADORKABLE

Thanks for playing. :D THIS WAS FUN AND MUCH BETTER THAN DISCUSSING ON TWITTER IN 140 CHARACTERS.

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