campy&#39;s porn shack

ugh mallozziiiiii. shut your fuckin' FACE, god. I haven't been reading any of these because I know they'll invariably upset me.

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I haven't been reading the seasons I haven't watched yet, but now that Mallozzi's in S9, I caved.

Such a CLASS ACT of him to passive-aggressively insult someone in complimenting someone(s) else.

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I wonder if he'll talk about Atlantis. I don't think I would be able to deal with anything he said about CERTAIN THINGS, given what he has said in the past.

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I've been savoring my viewings of SGA, knowing what's going to happen to Torri later. When I read how she'd been informed of being written out, I suddenly realized that the lack of female writers in the mid-to-later season of SG-1 and nearly ALL of SGA wasn't latent misogyny, but BLATANT misogyny.

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yep. yep. yep yep yep.

(also I don't think I know how she was told? ergh, not sure I want to know, but you'd better just go ahead and tell me anyway. nnnnnnngh.)

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“The very last day of filming Season Three, as I finished filming the last scene on the last day, I was called up to the office and was told that my character was going to become recurring if I chose to be. So, I thought that was not a very dignified way to deal with it, and I was a bit surprised. So my reaction was — I was a little bit surprised. I was a little bit upset by how it was dealt with.”
http://geeksofdoom.com/2008/07/09/atlantis-torri-higginson-not-coming-back/

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dankriss.livejournal.com

When she was at Chevron she was asked about returning and because they didn't kill her off properly she said no....and Torri is so sweet and tiny!

Kriss :)

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Oy. I don't blame Torri one bit.

If only MGM would let Martin Wood, Damian Kindler & Amanda Tapping continue the Stargate franchise... *sigh*.

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but we wanted to keep the character alive.

no, you wanted to be lazy. If they wanted to keep her alive, then why did they keep killing her in increasingly non-closurey fashion? ohhhh my rage.

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Apparently, being a "class act" is a double standard that doesn't apply to the writers & producers -- only to actors who don't step on their egos.

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I am still so pissed about this. Elizabeth was totes my favourite character and knowing how much disrespect Mallozzi and co. gave Torri just ruined it for me.

I still watched because I wanted to know what came of the show, but it was never the same. Amanda, love her to death, but her being there was essentially pointless. All the things the writers said they couldn't do with Torri, they didn't even try to rectify with Amanda (who had to be there under contract while she was filming the Sanctuary web series). It was obviously a personal decision to fire her, not anything to do with the direction of the show.

/rant.

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Elizabeth Weir is the character whom I summon/channel when dealing with clients at my RL job. Torri played her with such grace & poise, it baffles me that the Boys at the Bridge thought that "demoting" her would help the franchise.

I haven't watched S6 of SG-1, but I wish they'd've considered casting a woman instead of a man to fill in the loss of Daniel. (No objections to Jonas or to Corin Nemic, who's adorable.) LOL Not surprised that they chose a man, but still. Brad Wright & Co. constantly disappoint me the more I discover Stargate production history. :(

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I used to channel Weir in my business class too! :D I was always chosen to be the leader. The problem with the Boys at Bridge is that they could not see how strong and central to the show she was. She was the backbone of the show as it was more ensemble than SG-1, who were older and experienced enough to hold their own.

That is such an interesting idea, hiring a woman to replace Daniel. It probably was never considered, knowing TPTB, but again they were probably trying not to go too far from the Daniel archetype so as to upset the boat as little as possible.

My love for this show was fueled by the actors, the stories (for the most part) and the possibilities. Yes there is a lot of nasty stuff that went on behind the scenes with Mallozzi's run ins with Shanks & Torri and Cooper's homophobic comments, blatant sexism and a few things in the series that could have been handled more sensitively (Daniel's rape, Lucius etc), but please don't let their shitty behaviour take away from your enjoyment of the show and the wondrous fandom is has bought about.

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I'm toward the end of SGA's S2 in my first-time watch, and I love watching the way Weir evolves as a leader. Seeing her grapple with going DARKSIDE by authorizing torture for interrogation & medical experimentation on a Wraith makes me love her more -- not because I approve of her decisions, but because it makes her less of a paragon and more of a conflicted, rounded character.

The aftershocks of wank from the wankiest Shanks fangirls during SG-1's S6 are apparent even to a latecomer like me. There'd be wank regardless of whether they cast Nemec or a woman.

I wish that BW's shitty mishandling of SGU hadn't driven the franchise into the ground. :( If he'd've allowed the writers & crew to do what they excel at (self-deprecating humor, flexibility between drama/comedy/action/angst, and accessible characters) we'd have a 3rd season of SGU and the possibility of SGA & more SG-1 movies.

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Seeing her grapple with going DARKSIDE by authorizing torture for interrogation & medical experimentation on a Wraith makes me love her more -- not because I approve of her decisions, but because it makes her less of a paragon and more of a conflicted, rounded character.

Exactly this! She was perfectly imperfect. She made us question what a normal person - no military training, no higher agenda or influence, what they would do if put in that situation. The idea of putting a woman who ran negotiations and treaties, anti-gun, anti-war in a position where she could not avoid those things, and was in charge of people whom she had to order to carry out thus, it was fascinating stuff.

As for SGU, I was watching the press conference from Fedcon today and RDA was mentioning how SGU was simply not compatible with the rest of the franchise and viewership suffered for it. Couldn't agree more. Of course there were other factors such as the leaked casting calls from season one and the axing of SGA didn't help either.

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(I meant to type that I *don't* approve of Weir's decisions regarding torture & live subject experimentation but that it doesn't diminish my love for the character in the least.) So yes, her imperfections make her an intriguing and powerful character.

RDA was mentioning how SGU was simply not compatible with the rest of the franchise

That statement carries a lot of cred, given that RDA built the Stargate franchise from the get-go and nurtured it from its uncertain early seasons. I guess BW & Co. got cocky the more successful the franchise became.

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carlinjona.livejournal.com

Casting a woman to replace Daniel... hmm, that could have worked. Jonas was doomed from the get go: they introduced him in Meridian, thus reducing the attention given to Daniel, they made him a carbon copy of Daniel (albeit one where the carbon paper was worn very thin), and BW talked him up so much, telling us we'd love him and he was so hunky, as if we'd never know the difference. All that piled on top of the appalling treatment given to Shanks, yeah, Nemec never had a chance.

So, who would this woman have been? Archaeologist, anthropologist, specialist in something else?

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UGH. Brad Effing Wright. I give him props for doing some things well -- very well -- but the nauseating way he caved to network pressure to deliver & tout a near-Daniel replacement while KNOWING that it compromised the integrity of BOTH characters is pretty sleazy. Daniel & Jonas deserved much, much better treatment.

As for filling Daniel's spot on SG-1 with a woman, how about a quantum-mirror Shau'ri played by Mili Avital? She wouldn't've had to refuse the role because there'd be no requirement of nudity!

Or perhaps Barbara Shore, the archaeologist from the 1994 movie? That would add a Woman of a Certain Age to the team, which would be quite interesting.

Or maybe a timey-wimey younger version of Catherine Langford? bwahahaha!

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carlinjona.livejournal.com

Lucius? Who he? My memory is failing!

Totally agree with the lack of sensitive handling of Daniel's rape, getting locked up in the mental asylum, having to share his last episode with his cruddy replacement... etc.

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Lucius was the guy played by Richard Kind on SGA who drugged the many wives he had so they'd marry & have sex with him...

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I remember reading once on ONTD, of all places, a discussion of female Stargate characters. Someone said Elizabeth was "the heart and soul of [SGA]" and man, talk about hitting the nail on the head. I'm still trying to slog through S5 and it's almost impossible because what even is the point anymore? It was even hard at times for me to get through S4, and you know I wouldn't say that lightly.

Edited Date: 2011-06-07 09:24 am (UTC)

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Oh my, yes -- even though I can't wait to watch Samlantis, the *reason why* the expedition has a new leader is one I'm not looking forward to watching.

Elizabeth, to me, is like a modern-day Ancient. She fits so naturally into the role of Atlantis' caretaker & leader that it's easy to believe she was chosen by destiny to be there.

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SAMLANTIS ISN'T EVEN WORTH IT because she's not even there enough to justify getting rid of Torri, which only compounds upon my existing fury. It's still a cool thing for somebody who's always in Sam's corner, but you juuust can't shake the overall bitterness of the entire situation.

I gotta go to bed instead of talking about this opus of sorrow.

Edited Date: 2011-06-07 09:47 am (UTC)

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franthewndrhrse.livejournal.com

This conversation totally bums me out. (Not that you shouldn't be talking about it, I don't mean that.) I haven't followed the ins and outs of SG1 or SGA, just heard bits and pieces here and there. SIGH.

As I was reading some SG1 fanfic last night, I was thinking how much I missed both shows. I too, liked Elizabeth a lot and was disappointed to see her go. I like Sam a lot, too, but that's beside the point.

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Yeah, I also got bummed when I heard about certain behind-the-scenes stuff for The X-Files. Hollywood power players are a predictably wretched lot.

it's weird how the writers confessed to having watched Farscape & Firefly, but didn't take with them the fact that having more women & people of color makes a show REALLY GOOD.

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Ugh, this discussion brings back memories... I always feel like Atlantis missed out on the potential to be so freakin' amazing. Insead of just ~good. Getting rid of Elizabeth was the worst move they could've done but I guess Mallozzi and crew reach the highest point in their ability to write a female character. :/ Sad.

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I wish I knew WHY they got rid of Weir. Did the SciFi network poll viewers who said they didn't watch because of Weir? Ugh. I'm not sure I want to know.

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Oh, you know their ~reasoning. They did it for ~shock and whatever. :/

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thothmes.livejournal.com

SAMLANTIS ISN'T EVEN WORTH IT

Big Picture-wise, I'd have to say I agree with you, and I definitely see where you are coming from. And Torri got a raw deal all around and should never have been removed. Instead they should have further developed her character as she took on new and more difficult challenges, and was further removed from the political and social milieu in which she had moved in her life on Earth.

I would have loved to have seen an ep. where Weir goes home for meetings, and runs into her former colleagues spouting anti-military platitudes, and surprises them with (the nuanced) way in which her views have changed, the genesis of which she cannot discuss, while back in Atlantis Sheppard (who has worked with her for a while now) takes a more patient and pacifist approach to a situation than Lorne and Ronan think he should. That was the joy of the original Stargate was seeing all the growth and change with time. The Daniel that faced Khallek was not the Daniel that stepped up to the priests on Chulak the first time they went there.

I came to Atlantis from SG-1 (and am always surprised to note how many people did it the other way around), and for me, the few scenes where we get to see Sam really flex her commandatorial muscle and be awesome are worth it. There are not many of these, but I treasure them, because we get to see almost none of this in Seasons 8, 9, & 10 of Stargate SG-1, in spite of the fact that Sam commanded SG-1 for a year, and held the same rank as Mitchell in the last two years. We continue to get Sam the galaxy-saving Soopergenius, but not Sam the commander. So getting to see her say (in essence) "My base, my rules, I'm in charge here, deal with ME!" was a big payoff.

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in spite of the fact that Sam commanded SG-1 for a year

oh my god, don't even get me started on this. Season 8, my mortal enemy. "Yes, I think we need to have some episodes about Anubis being a ghost and Maybourne having 40 wives. Sam being in command of SG-1? Why would we want to show that?"

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thothmes.livejournal.com

Exactly! And my son wondered why I looked at him like he'd grown a second head when he said that he thought Season 8 was his favorite season.

Then again, he was a teenage male. A pretty nice guy, and fond enough of strong women that he turned down a number of girls who showed an interest in him because they were nice but too... well, they'd just let him roll right over him, and he wants someone who will challenge him and win sometimes, but a guy nevertheless.

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RIGHT, I don't understand how so many people love season 8. I mean, not trying to dump on anyone who does because different tastes and stuff, but there are just so many little underlying things. Not to mention the fact that Icon was supposed to be a Sam episode and then it wasn't because "we've had a lot of Sam stories recently." Right, if by a lot of Sam stories you mean her spending a few episodes getting the shit beaten out of her.

We're not painting a very good picture of things for Campy, are we? Campy it's okay it's still great. Most of the time.

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LOL

I survived what Chris Carter did to Scully & her baby in The X-Files, so I'll survive SG-1 S8!

(We will also not talk about what happened to Krycek & The Lone Gunmen. MAI CREYZ LET ME SHOW U TEHM)

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CREYS FOREVER AND EVER. I don't even think I saw those episodes because I'd given up by then, but I'll certainly see them in my rewatch. :(

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I NEVER COULD WATCH ALL OF SEASON 9. I just couldn't. It was soooo bad to me.

(We will also not talk about what happened to Krycek & The Lone Gunmen. MAI CREYZ LET ME SHOW U TEHM)

CREYS FOREVER. ;__;

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the few scenes where we get to see Sam really flex her commandatorial muscle and be awesome are worth it
OMG whenever I see Sam in command, I melt. She was so adorable channeling Jack's leadership manner in "Spirits" that I was ecstatic when she got promoted to Major. There's still a faction of Sam-haters that object to her "rapid promotion" but hello? SHE CAN MAKE AWESOME HAPPEN WITH SCIENCE and good decisions under pressure and show true compassion for people. All leaders benefit from those traits.

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thothmes.livejournal.com

And would these same Sam haters be the ones who didn't object when Jack O'Neill went from Brigadier to Major General to Lieutenant General in the space of 3 years, clearly without enough time in grade?

Sam had at least two (and probably at least three years in as Captain) and she would have graduated the Academy as a Lieutenant. She then served 5 years as a Major before getting her promotion to Lieutenant Colonel, and had 3 years at that rank before making Full Bird. This does not seem unreasonable.

I like Jack. He's the character that originally drew me to the show, and I tend to watch with "Jack goggles" on, although I like them all, and want them all to have their place in the sun. The show wouldn't work if it were just the Jack O'Neill, HERO show.

Even I know that Jack gets away with murder and the kitchen sink because RDA was their big name star with his name above the title, and that Sam, even though she is one of the most kick-ass female characters in television, is often relegated to the Technobabble Delivery Sustem, by the writers.

I think she deserved every promotion she got, and worked hard for them all.

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^^ I love everything this comment chooses to be! ♥

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Yep, those are the haters. Old wank dies hard.

There was an SGA DVD commentary that called Rodney McKay & Radek Zelenka "expositionary characters"; that's definitely what Sam & Daniel were in SG-1 many times. I love plotty stories, but for me, the main reason I engage in literature isn't about "ooh what happens next?" but goes further in showing HOW events influence character development.

BW & Co. often concocted stories too big to adequately fit into 44 minutes, and a LOT of character development got passed over because of it, which is a damned shame.

I want to know about how Sara has her questions answered regarding CrystalEntity!Charlie in "Cold Lazarus".
I want Sam to tell someone -- even Janet -- how she's doing with the whole "twin" thing in "Point of View".
I want to know more about the antipathy between Daniel & Teal'c regarding Sha're in "Forever and a Day".
I want to know how the Team reconciles the rift created in "Shades of Grey".

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gyri.livejournal.com

Such a CLASS ACT of him to passive-aggressively insult someone in complimenting someone(s) else.

EXACTLY.

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gyri.livejournal.com

Ahahahahaha! He sure sounds like a control freak. As if no actor in the history of acting has ever improvised on-set. Please.

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Yeah, it's so wanky the way Mallozzi carries that grudge. Brad Wright in the commentaries/special features reiterates how he loved working on the show because it was COLLABORATIVE. Mallozzi in the bonus features to "Morpheus" actually tries to joke about how everything he writes is gold. Only it's false modesty AND evidence of his ACTUAL 'tude.

It really makes me suspect that when Shanks or Tapping or RDA (CJ hardly got any lines, LOL) approached him for dialog changes, he got defensive and douchey, so they might've said "awfuckit we're not running anything by you anymore". Which would bend him out of shape even more.

I will give Mallozzi props for writing some truly beautiful teleplays; he can write well to a deadline. But writing well doesn't entitle anyone to being a Special Princess Douchebag.

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LOL *khm*RDA*khm*

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